From Marriott@campbell-lutyens.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:23 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:32:02 CST Message-ID: From: Christiian Marriott Subject: Book recommendation? Return-Receipt-To: Christiian Marriott MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 28 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:428 I've never really done much actual reading on F1 (done lots of looking at books with glossy pictures), but I'm engrossed in "Racers" by Richard Williams and finding it absolutely compelling. I love the mixture of reportage with references to the history of the sport. I also think it's as achievement to write a book about sport with such narrative style. Can anyone recommend anything similar? I'd love to read more about the Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet era, which I grew up with, or about Senna himself, but would also be keen to read about F1 before I started following (pre 82/83). And anything to do with Ferrari. I'd appreciate any recommendations, thanks in advance. Regards Chris -- Christiian Marriott Campbell Lutyens & Co. Ltd, London Opinions are mine and not my employer's Please note spam protection in email address From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:24 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:40:38 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news4.svr.pol.co.uk 934987188 21038 62.136.180.117 (18 Aug 1999 14:39:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 1999 14:39:48 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 29 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:435 Christiian Marriott wrote > > I'd love to read more about the Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet era, > which I grew up with, or about Senna > himself, but would also be keen to read about F1 before I started > following (pre 82/83). And anything to do with Ferrari. Just finished Louis Stanley's new book, ' Strictly off the record', which I purchased last week. Highly recommended to anyone who wants a glimpse of what the sport was like before the current era, particularly in the '50s and '60s. Well illustrated, too. Do be prepared for it to be a bit gruesome, though. Published by Salamader Books. ISBN 1 84065 077 X. GBP18.99. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther British Racing Green: http://www.zing.com/album/ff/ff/a7/9/ffffa799.html From kim@foca.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:24 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:04:48 CST From: kim@foca.co.uk (Kim Andrews) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Formula One Cartoon Archive Reply-To: kim@foca.co.uk Message-ID: <37c4c9d7.20113506@news.powernet.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 18 Aug 1999 16:19:46 +0100, 195.60.5.115 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 19 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:436 On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 00:40:38 CST, "David Betts" wrote: > >Just finished Louis Stanley's new book, ' Strictly off the record', >which I purchased last week. Highly recommended to anyone who wants a >glimpse of what the sport was like before the current era, >particularly in the '50s and '60s. Well illustrated, too. Do be Hey, the 50's... any pictures of the women in the paddock David, Goodwood's coming up fast! ;o) Kimbo -- BotY competition now on at FOCA Formula One Cartoon Archive http://www.foca.co.uk From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:24 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 01:42:59 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pek25$mg7$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37c4c9d7.20113506@news.powernet.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news4.svr.pol.co.uk 934990725 23047 62.136.26.113 (18 Aug 1999 15:38:45 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Aug 1999 15:38:45 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 36 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:437 Kim Andrews wrote > > Hey, the 50's... any pictures of the women in the paddock David, > Goodwood's coming up fast! Loads, darlin'. Leopardskin coat and white headscarf (Jean Stanley). Laura Ferrari went in for heascarves as well. Princess Grace seemed to like chic little hats. Gloria Swanson had what looks like ostrich-feather cuffs on a white suit. Or you could always go for the Joan Collins look - low-cut, floor-length chiffon with pearl belt...mind you, that was for the ball at Monaco. ;-). Seriously, though, wives and girlfriends did have a role in the pits in those days. Instead of helplessly watching a monitor like Erja Hakkinen, their job in the days of manual timing was to 'man' the stopwatches and keep the lap charts. Bloody good at it, some of them were, too. Of course, I imagine it did help to have something to occupy the mind when you knew that there was a jolly good chance one of the husbands or boyfriends wouldn't be coming back - and it might be yours. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther British Racing Green: http://www.zing.com/album/ff/ff/a7/9/ffffa799.html From ruddell@unibase.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:24 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:13:54 CST From: ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Message-ID: References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> Organization: Ratbag & Mooch Ltd X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 934992767 142.165.128.48 (Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:12:47 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:12:47 CST Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 42 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:439 In article <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk>, davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk says... > Christiian Marriott wrote > > > > I'd love to read more about the Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet era, > > which I grew up with, or about Senna > > himself, but would also be keen to read about F1 before I started > > following (pre 82/83). And anything to do with Ferrari. > > Just finished Louis Stanley's new book, ' Strictly off the record', > which I purchased last week. Highly recommended to anyone who wants a > glimpse of what the sport was like before the current era, > particularly in the '50s and '60s. Well illustrated, too. Do be > prepared for it to be a bit gruesome, though. > > Published by Salamader Books. ISBN 1 84065 077 X. GBP18.99. Thanks David, I'll try and find that one, or rather someone who will order it for me as bookstores here don't stock much F1... But Christiian's question rasies one with me...we've got a pretty healthy collection of books (as I'm sure most people here do also) on teams/drivers/eras which was really increased when Julie & I pooled our rescources and found little duplication...she's got the entire list on disk somewhere which we'll post here (I'm not allowed in the office when she's not home and that's where it is). But do you know of a site where people could send a list of their books with publishing info that could be updated as collections grow? Would be interesting to see what we've all got as like I said, Julie & I had each had a fair amount and when we combined them, there were few duplicates, so that could apply to everyone? One book I'd love to own is about Bruce McLaren titled simply 'McLaren'. Got if from our library quite a few years ago and found it a great bio. I wrote down the info to order it and found it out of print. Course the one in the library was gone when I returned to offer to buy it. I've looked in used bookstores over here and in England when we visit family, but not a bit of luck. Soooo, if you ever see one on your journey's ;-) Dennis From kim@foca.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:25 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:30:00 CST From: kim@foca.co.uk (Kim Andrews) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Formula One Cartoon Archive Reply-To: kim@foca.co.uk Message-ID: <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 18 Aug 1999 17:41:05 +0100, 195.60.5.83 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 27 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:443 On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:13:54 CST, ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) wrote: -snip- >One book I'd love to own is about Bruce McLaren titled simply 'McLaren'. >Got if from our library quite a few years ago and found it a great bio. >I wrote down the info to order it and found it out of print. Course the >one in the library was gone when I returned to offer to buy it. I've >looked in used bookstores over here and in England when we visit family, >but not a bit of luck. Soooo, if you ever see one on your journey's ;-) > Dennis, if you have any other details I'd be happy to call my local excellent motor books shop which stocks new and used books and see if they can help. Same offer goes for other overseas posters who struggle in less F1-aware countries. Get enough enquiries, I've got a ready made excuse to visit the shop in person again. :o) Kimbo -- BotY competition now on at FOCA Formula One Cartoon Archive http://www.foca.co.uk From ruddell@unibase.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:25 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:45:48 CST From: ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Message-ID: References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk> Organization: Ratbag & Mooch Ltd X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 934994698 142.165.128.48 (Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:44:58 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:44:58 CST Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 25 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn4feed!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!WCG!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:445 In article <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk>, kim@foca.co.uk says... > Dennis, if you have any other details I'd be happy to call my local > excellent motor books shop which stocks new and used books and see if > they can help. That's the only one which sticks with me as the one that got away, but the publishing details, long gone. We do order from magazines etc when new books come out but we really can't get much info other than from those sources or when books are mentioned on ngs of course. Julie just called me and said that a site for rasf1m is being created. Maybe this could be a feature added to it or just mention your books/models where you sign the guest book and put it there? > Same offer goes for other overseas posters who struggle in less > F1-aware countries. Get enough enquiries, I've got a ready made > excuse to visit the shop in person again. :o) You're such a nice lady... Dennis From kim@foca.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:25 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:58:01 CST From: kim@foca.co.uk (Kim Andrews) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Formula One Cartoon Archive Reply-To: kim@foca.co.uk Message-ID: <37cde42a.26853212@news.powernet.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 18 Aug 1999 18:12:56 +0100, 195.60.5.42 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 44 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.tli.de!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:446 On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:45:48 CST, ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) wrote: >In article <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk>, kim@foca.co.uk >says... > >> Dennis, if you have any other details I'd be happy to call my local >> excellent motor books shop which stocks new and used books and see if >> they can help. > >That's the only one which sticks with me as the one that got away, but >the publishing details, long gone. Well, I'll see what they can do with just that. They'll be closed now, I'll try tomorrow. Joggle my elbow if I forget. Anybody else... you've got until tomorrow morning BSTish to add any requests this time around! > >We do order from magazines etc when new books come out but we really >can't get much info other than from those sources or when books are >mentioned on ngs of course. Julie just called me and said that a site >for rasf1m is being created. Maybe this could be a feature added to it Oh goody! >or just mention your books/models where you sign the guest book and put >it there? An actual library index would be good. Better chap up whoever's going to be looking after it. > >> Same offer goes for other overseas posters who struggle in less >> F1-aware countries. Get enough enquiries, I've got a ready made >> excuse to visit the shop in person again. :o) > >You're such a nice lady... Aw shucks. Kimbo -- BotY competition now on at FOCA Formula One Cartoon Archive http://www.foca.co.uk From stephen@nospam.rasf1m.org Wed Sep 15 13:59:26 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:15:15 CST Message-ID: From: Stephen M Baines Reply-To: Stephen M Baines Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk> Organization: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 U Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 14 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news.ip.pt!global-one.pt!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.belnet.be!isdnet!netnews.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:461 In article , Dennis Ruddell writes >Julie just called me and said that a site >for rasf1m is being created. Maybe this could be a feature added to it >or just mention your books/models where you sign the guest book and put >it there? Tom should notice this, but if he doesn't I'll pass it on to him. That sounds like an ideal use for the site. -- Stephen M Baines http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m Rasf1m moderation team From tpc@indigo.ie Wed Sep 15 13:59:26 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:34:34 CST From: "Tom Cosgrave" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk><37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk> Subject: Re: Book recommendation? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: news@indigo.ie X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 935029939 194.125.134.158 (Thu, 19 Aug 1999 03:32:19 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 03:32:19 BST Organization: Indigo Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 19 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:467 Stephen M Baines wrote in message > > Tom should notice this, but if he doesn't I'll pass it on to him. That > sounds like an ideal use for the site. Ummm, I was hoping to just have info pertaining to the group on rasf1m.org and that the motorsport stuff could go on the rasf1.org site. I only intended the rasf1m site to be for " group business". Tom -- Tom Cosgrave { tpc@indigo.ie } "Wasted your life in black and white, Kevin Carter" From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:27 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:26:15 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pgbhs$l1k$2@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 935047548 21556 62.136.62.157 (19 Aug 1999 07:25:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 1999 07:25:48 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 23 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:477 Kim Andrews wrote > Dennis, if you have any other details I'd be happy to call my local > excellent motor books shop which stocks new and used books and see > if they can help. See my reply to Dennis. There are at least two possibilities. Mind you, both are worth having . -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther The Classic Car Gallery: http://www.zing.com/album/ff/ff/c0/b/ffffc0bd.html From ronbryce@ihug.co.nz Wed Sep 15 13:59:27 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:20:43 CST From: ronbryce@ihug.co.nz (Ron) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Message-ID: <37bba20b.81671850@news.ihug.co.nz> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 20 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!do.de.uu.net!newsfeed.tli.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:470 On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:13:54 CST, ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) wrote: > >One book I'd love to own is about Bruce McLaren titled simply 'McLaren'. >Got if from our library quite a few years ago and found it a great bio. >I wrote down the info to order it and found it out of print. Course the >one in the library was gone when I returned to offer to buy it. I've >looked in used bookstores over here and in England when we visit family, >but not a bit of luck. Soooo, if you ever see one on your journey's ;-) > > >Dennis Try Barnes & Noble - I got my copy from them about four months ago :-) www.barnesandnoble.com I think Ron From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:27 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:27:02 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pgbhr$l1k$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 935047547 21556 62.136.62.157 (19 Aug 1999 07:25:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 1999 07:25:47 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 59 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:476 Dennis Ruddell wrote > davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk says... > > Published by Salamader Books. ISBN 1 84065 077 X. GBP18.99. That should be 'Salamander', of course. > Thanks David, I'll try and find that one, or rather someone who will > order it for me as bookstores here don't stock much F1... Have you tried the on-line bookstores. I've said thing were out of print in the past, only to be reminded by the good Rui that they can be bought from Amazon. I buy books on-line from Amazon and/or W.H.Smith in the UK quite often. Doesn't beat browsing in a good 'analogue' book store, though . > But do you know of a site where > people could send a list of their books with publishing info that could > be updated as collections grow? Would be interesting to see what we've > all got as like I said, Julie & I had each had a fair amount and when we > combined them, there were few duplicates, so that could apply to > everyone? A fair old job. Mine are catalogued, but it's not up to date by some years - and it's in an ancient version of Microsoft Works. Sorting it out would take weeks - we're talking hundreds of books here. Still, if there's anyone out there with spare web capacity who wants to build the rasf1m virtual library on line, then I'm game to update my catalogue and send it in. > One book I'd love to own is about Bruce McLaren titled simply 'McLaren'. > Got if from our library quite a few years ago and found it a great bio. > I wrote down the info to order it and found it out of print. Would that be 'Bruce McLaren - The Man and his Racing Team' be Eoin Young (1971, Eyre and Spottiswoode, SBN 413 28390 9)? Mine is dated 'Derby Day - 2/6/71' and inscribed: 'Thank Mill Reef, not me!'. Definitely not for sale, but highly recommended. Or are you thinking of 'McLaren - The Grand Prix, Can-Am and Indy cars' by Doug Nye? If so, there was a new edition in 1988, published by Hazleton. Mine's a book-club version, so no ISBN, I'm afraid. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther Photo albums: http://www.photopoint.com/users/U10440.html From rps@rena.mat.uc.pt Wed Sep 15 13:59:28 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:27:01 CST From: Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Universidade de Coimbra Message-ID: <7pgikh$al0$1@rena.mat.uc.pt> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgbhr$l1k$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-981114 ("The Watchman") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/2.2.7-RELEASE (i386)) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 117 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!WCG!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:482 Rather expensive thread, this one, I am afraid. I suspect this time I will _really_ have to made a large order from some on-line shop. David Betts wrote: > Have you tried the on-line bookstores. I've said thing were out of > print in the past, only to be reminded by the good Rui that they can > be bought from Amazon. Thanks. BTW, I have a page about books (specifically, on-line bookstores, libraries, and on-line texts (I printed two of those for reading during my vacations, but I spent all the little free time I had with just a couple of normal books)). That page is at: http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/livros.html BTW, one of my links there is to: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/petef/racing/bookrevs.html > I buy books on-line from Amazon and/or http://www.amazon.com/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/ http://www.amazon.de/ BTW, if you happen to read german, Berger wrote a interesting (so I have been told) book, which unfortunately has not been translated (AFAIK): http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3950075402/qid=935051907/sr=1-2/028-8687612-0645218 > W.H.Smith in the UK quite often. I didn't have a link to that one: http://www.whsmith.co.uk (It blew my browser. Maybe it was unrelated, but I don't think I will using it much.) > Would that be 'Bruce McLaren - The Man and his Racing Team' be Eoin > Young (1971, Eyre and Spottiswoode, SBN 413 28390 9)? Mine is dated > 'Derby Day - 2/6/71' and inscribed: 'Thank Mill Reef, not me!'. > Definitely not for sale, but highly recommended. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852605111/qid=935052856/sr=1-1/002-9118155-1050419 $17.47 Availability: 2-3 days. or http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852605111/qid%3D935052856/sr%3D1-1/026-4422861-1492203 £13.82 Availability: 1-2 weeks. A "problem" with Amazon is that their page is so well-thought of, that when you look for something, you invariably find other books which also seem interesting (which can quickly make you want to order $100 or $200 of books): These two were mentioned in this thread (I think): "It Beats Working : My 35 Years Inside Motorsport Racing" by Eoin S. Young http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852604603/qid%3D935052856/sr%3D1-5/026-4422861-1492203 £14.39 Availability: 2-3 days. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852604603/qid=935052856/sr=1-5/002-9118155-1050419 $39.95 Availability: 4-6 weeks "James Hunt Against All Odds" by Eoin Young, et al (This one is out of print at amazon. I didn't check other stores.) > Or are you thinking of 'McLaren - The Grand Prix, Can-Am and Indy > cars' by Doug Nye? If so, there was a new edition in 1988, published > by Hazleton. Mine's a book-club version, so no ISBN, I'm afraid. Out of print at Amazon.com, curiously. Amazon.co.uk has one book, but it is titled only "McLaren": http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0905138546/qid=935053565/sr=1-8/026-4422861-1492203 £15.95 Availability: 4-6 weeks. It is from Hazleton Pub., so presumably the new edition (December 1987) which David was talking about. ; ISBN: 0905138546, BTW, a little but very useful trick at amazon: you can take one of those very long URLs which take you directly to the book page, and replace .com by .co.uk (and vice-versa) and you get to the same book but on the other shop (at least most of the time). Not sure it it also works with .de (maybe not, since they don't have the same books). BTW2, the following is (the motorsport-related part of) a list I made months ago of books I intended to buy. It may be outdated, but it might be useful nevertheless:

$17.50 The Technique of Motor Racing by Piero Taruffi link (24 hours)
£14.68 UK (1-2 weeks) barnesandnoble $25.00 !

$27.97 Can-Am by Pete Lyons, Peter Lyons link (24 hours)
£21.11 UK (24 hours.) $27.96 barnesandnoble (24 hours)

$19.96 Inside Racing Technology : Discussions of Racing Technical Topics by Paul Haney, Jeff Braun (Contributor) link
£13.19 UK (1-2 weeks) £13.76 bookshop UK (14 days) P.S.: I am not on commission from Amazon. I just love their web page. BTW: One thing a bit strange is that whenever I look up motorsport books at Amazon, I find few, if any, readers coments. (The average today seemed to be 0.5.) Other books I check, seem to have much more comments. -- http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/f1/ a born-again-tifoso Mark Sandman - Morphine, RIP (July 3th, 1999, Italy) .pt is Portugal| `Whom the gods love die young'-Menander (342-292 BC) Europe | Villeneuve 50-82, Toivonen 56-86, Senna 60-94 From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:29 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:58:00 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pgnv5$3ue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgbhr$l1k$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgikh$al0$1@rena.mat.uc.pt> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 935060261 4046 62.136.164.226 (19 Aug 1999 10:57:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 1999 10:57:41 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 40 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:483 Rui Pedro Mendes Salgueiro wrote > > David Betts wrote: > > > W.H.Smith in the UK > > I didn't have a link to that one: > http://www.whsmith.co.uk > (It blew my browser. Maybe it was unrelated, but I don't think I > will using it much.) Try: http://www.bookshop.co.uk/hme/hmepge.asp Not a big step from books to sounds. I'm typing this while listening to the V16 BRM - one of two new recordings of Nick Mason's car which I have obtained in the last few days: Firstly, by purchasing the book he has done with Mark Hales on driving impressions of his collection ('Into the red', published by Virgin Books, ISBN 1 85227 717 3) which includes a CD featuring most of them. Secondly - and this is the one I am listening too for the first time at the moment - a free 50-minute CD called 'Sounds of Goodwood' which is being given away with the new issue of MotorSport. Once again featuring the sounds of Mason's cars (D-type singing at the moment), linked by an interview with Mason by Simon Taylor. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther Photo albums: http://www.photopoint.com/users/U10440.html From pete@fenelon.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:29 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 06:20:55 CST From: Pete Fenelon Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgbhr$l1k$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgikh$al0$1@rena.mat.uc.pt> <7pgnv5$3ue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i586)) Message-ID: X-Trace: news.zetnet.co.uk 935094012 29326 news@194.247.40.227 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 27 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:498 David Betts wrote: > Secondly - and this is the one I am listening too for the first time > at the moment - a free 50-minute CD called 'Sounds of Goodwood' which > is being given away with the new issue of MotorSport. Once again > featuring the sounds of Mason's cars (D-type singing at the moment), > linked by an interview with Mason by Simon Taylor. Laugh. How many of us are listening to that while we're doing News tonight? (Guilty as charged. Played the BRM track half a dozen times!) Re: bookstores and suchlike -- Barnes and Noble's out of print service is a great way to beat the inflated prices that a lot of specialists charge for old racing books. My near-mint "Encyclopedia Of Motor Sport" was about $55 from there, which even with transatlantic delivery came to little more than 45 quid. I've never seen a copy of it on sale in Britain for under 80, and that's for musty old old "reading copies" that are more than slightly foxed :) I still regret not picking up a remaindered copy of John Wyer's autobiography for less than a fiver back in my early teens - I was young and innocent and spent the money on something F1 related. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" (HMHB) From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:30 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:36:44 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pj0hg$m0r$3@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7pegjk$khe$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgbhr$l1k$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <7pgikh$al0$1@rena.mat.uc.pt> <7pgnv5$3ue$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news4.svr.pol.co.uk 935134576 22555 62.136.63.48 (20 Aug 1999 07:36:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Aug 1999 07:36:16 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 25 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:512 Pete Fenelon wrote > > I still regret not picking up a remaindered copy of John Wyer's > autobiography for less than a fiver back in my early teens - I was young > and innocent and spent the money on something F1 related. 'The Certain Sound...Thirty Years of Motor Racing' by John Wyer. First published in 1981 - my goodness, you're a mere child . Thought you were an old fart like me. Great book, and plenty of F1 interest in the drivers, of course. Highly recommended. ISBN 0 85429 478 3. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther Photo albums: http://www.photopoint.com/users/U10440.html From pete@fenelon.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:30 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 05:16:28 CST X-Authentication-Warning: backdraft.briar.org: smap set sender to using -f From: Pete Fenelon Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i586)) Message-ID: X-Trace: news.zetnet.co.uk 935003729 29326 news@194.247.41.49 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 64 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:450 Christiian Marriott wrote: > I've never really done much actual reading on F1 (done lots of looking > at books > with glossy pictures), but I'm engrossed in "Racers" by Richard Williams > and > finding it absolutely compelling. I love the mixture of reportage with > references to the history of the sport. I also think it's as achievement > to > write a book about sport with such narrative style. > Can anyone recommend anything similar? I'd love to read more about the > Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet era, which I grew up with, or about Senna > himself, but would also be keen to read about F1 before I started > following > (pre 82/83). And anything to do with Ferrari. Two of the best driver biographies of recent(ish) drivers are "Villeneuve" and "James Hunt" by Gerald Donaldson. Both get into the minds of the drivers (unlike the usual Christopher Hilton potboiler). The best driver bios I've come across are Chris Nixon's "Mon Ami Mate" (Peter Collins and Mike Hawthorn), Eric Dymock's "Jim Clark", and Nixon again with "Rosemeyer, A New Biography" (co-authored with Elly Rosemeyer and really a biography of an extraordinary couple). Of driver autobiographies, Niki Lauda's ("To Hell And Back" and "Second Time Round") are highly insightful and entertaining and are easy to pick up secondhand... Innes Ireland's "All Arms And Elbows" is by turns uproarious, moving and terrifying, and Graham Hill's "Life At The Limit" an excellent self-portrait. John Surtees - World Champion contains a lot about his time on bikes and is very frank about the politics at Ferrari. The standard reference on Ferrari in F1 is probably Alan Henry's superb Autocourse work "Ferrari: The Grand Prix Cars"; however, this stops in the late Eighties... If you can get hold of a copy of the Ferrari 50th Anniversary book, do so - there's lots of fantastic text and pictures in it. The best history of the sport - well, certainly the best-written and best- illustrated - is William Court's "Power And Glory" (2 volumes, 1906-51 and 52-73). Cimarosti's "Complete History of Motor Racing" is pretty good but a lot dryer; Boddy and Laban's "History of Motor Racing" (which also appears as part of "The Automobile: The First Century") is superbly illustrated and the text is admirably concise and incisive. >From a technical point of view, the cars are best described in Doug Nye's two-volume history of the Grand Prix car (1945-65 and 65-91). These are starting to appreciate in price so snap them up if you can find them. If you're excessively rich and can find them, the two-volume history by Pomeroy and the accompanying volume by Setright will take you from the turn of the century to 1965, but I can't afford them! (All three are changing hands in the three-figure region now). Finally, if you can get it at all, the "Encyclopedia Of Motor Sport" (1971) tells you far more about the history, technicalities and personalities than almost any other book I've ever read. Copies of this aren't hard to find if you scour secondhand bookstores and the Internet. Finally, for a comparison of driving skill and technique ancient and modern, try a few books like Denis Jenkinson's "The Racing Driver" and the Skip Barber School's "Going Faster". -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" (HMHB) From paul@thunderbird-sport.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:31 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:16:13 CST Message-ID: From: Paul B Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? References: Organization: biker MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 U Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 71 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news.ip.pt!global-one.pt!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:462 , Pete Fenelon writes > > >Two of the best driver biographies of recent(ish) drivers are >"Villeneuve" and "James Hunt" by Gerald Donaldson. Both get into the >minds of the drivers (unlike the usual Christopher Hilton potboiler). The >best driver bios I've come across are Chris Nixon's "Mon Ami Mate" >(Peter Collins and Mike Hawthorn), Eric Dymock's "Jim Clark", and Nixon >again with "Rosemeyer, A New Biography" (co-authored with Elly Rosemeyer and >really a biography of an extraordinary couple). Of driver autobiographies, >Niki Lauda's ("To Hell And Back" and "Second Time Round") are highly insightful >and entertaining and are easy to pick up secondhand... Innes Ireland's >"All Arms And Elbows" is by turns uproarious, moving and terrifying, and >Graham Hill's "Life At The Limit" an excellent self-portrait. John Surtees - >World Champion contains a lot about his time on bikes and is very frank >about the politics at Ferrari. > >The standard reference on Ferrari in F1 is probably Alan Henry's superb >Autocourse work "Ferrari: The Grand Prix Cars"; however, this stops in >the late Eighties... If you can get hold of a copy of the Ferrari 50th >Anniversary book, do so - there's lots of fantastic text and pictures in >it. > >The best history of the sport - well, certainly the best-written and best- >illustrated - is William Court's "Power And Glory" (2 volumes, 1906-51 and >52-73). Cimarosti's "Complete History of Motor Racing" is pretty good but >a lot dryer; Boddy and Laban's "History of Motor Racing" (which also appears >as part of "The Automobile: The First Century") is superbly illustrated and >the text is admirably concise and incisive. > >>From a technical point of view, the cars are best described in Doug Nye's >two-volume history of the Grand Prix car (1945-65 and 65-91). These are >starting to appreciate in price so snap them up if you can find them. >If you're excessively rich and can find them, the two-volume history by >Pomeroy and the accompanying volume by Setright will take you from the >turn of the century to 1965, but I can't afford them! (All three are >changing hands in the three-figure region now). > >Finally, if you can get it at all, the "Encyclopedia Of Motor Sport" (1971) >tells you far more about the history, technicalities and personalities than >almost any other book I've ever read. Copies of this aren't hard to find >if you scour secondhand bookstores and the Internet. > >Finally, for a comparison of driving skill and technique ancient and modern, >try a few books like Denis Jenkinson's "The Racing Driver" and the Skip >Barber School's "Going Faster". > Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn... Having fought against the formation of this newsgroup, and sworn never to let it darken my doors, I pop in here to have a look and find a thread I can't resist! I am now sitting looking at a copy of "The Turbo Years - Grand Prix Racing's Battle for Power" by Alan Henry, with a Foreword by Niki Lauda. To me it's one of the best books I have, and I must have read and re- read it a hundred times. If I could only have one book to keep which embodies the saga, the beauty, the spirit of Motor Racing in general and Formula One in particular, to show me the strengths, the weaknesses, the humanity of the teams and their builders it would be Brock Yates' "Enzo Ferrari, the Man and the Machine", published by Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-40116-5. If you never buy another book, buy this one. My copy is worn and dog-eared, a tribute to the number of times I have read it and the number of non-F1 people who have borrowed it and read it and then gone out and bought a copy of their own. -- Paul B Go Johnny Go From tpc@indigo.ie Wed Sep 15 13:59:32 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:34:28 CST From: "Tom Cosgrave" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: Subject: Re: Book recommendation? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: news@indigo.ie X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 935030038 194.125.134.158 (Thu, 19 Aug 1999 03:33:58 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 03:33:58 BST Organization: Indigo Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 22 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!WCG2!206.40.72.101!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:468 Paul B wrote in message > > Having fought against the formation of this newsgroup, and sworn never > to let it darken my doors, I pop in here to have a look and find a > thread I can't resist! Welcome :-) I hope you like what you see. I really, really, really need to go down the library and look for books on F1 of yesteryear - while I have some knowledge of events, my knowledge of it is sadly lacking a bit :-( Tom -- -- Tom Cosgrave { tpc@indigo.ie } "Wasted your life in black and white, Kevin Carter" From ruddell@unibase.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:32 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:25:52 CST From: ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Message-ID: References: Organization: Ratbag & Mooch Ltd X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 935036723 142.165.128.48 (Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:25:23 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:25:23 CST Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 46 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!WCG2!206.40.72.101!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:469 In article , paul@thunderbird-sport.freeserve.co.uk says... > Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn... Careful, moderated group remember :-) > Having fought against the formation of this newsgroup, and sworn never > to let it darken my doors, I pop in here to have a look and find a > thread I can't resist! Must be my naturally curly hair? > > I am now sitting looking at a copy of "The Turbo Years - Grand Prix > Racing's Battle for Power" by Alan Henry, with a Foreword by Niki Lauda. > To me it's one of the best books I have, and I must have read and re- > read it a hundred times. We've got a couple of books by Henry and looks like the search goes on...never can have enough of Niki... > If I could only have one book to keep which embodies the saga, the > beauty, the spirit of Motor Racing in general and Formula One in > particular, to show me the strengths, the weaknesses, the humanity of > the teams and their builders it would be Brock Yates' Somewhere I've got an issue of Car & Driver with an article about when he & Jean (sp?) Shepard drove a Corvette from New York to Fairbanks... > "Enzo Ferrari, the > Man and the Machine", published by Bantam Books, ISBN 0-553-40116-5. If > you never buy another book, buy this one. Another one for the list...guess you helped make my point along with and for people like us out in the boondocks the idea of a booklist, or sharing what we know is out there... > a tribute to the number of times I have read it and the number of non-F1 > people who have borrowed it and read it and then gone out and bought a > copy of their own. Did they stay non-F1 fans? Dennis From asj@maths.uq.edu.au Wed Sep 15 13:59:33 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:17:09 CST From: asj@maths.uq.edu.au (Alan Jones) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: University of Queensland Message-ID: <7pfao8$98m$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au> References: X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 7 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news.ip.pt!global-one.pt!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!198.138.0.5!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:463 I have fond memories of a history of Grand Prix cars written by Cyril Posthumous(?) about 1960. Unfortunately, my copy went walkabout yea these many years ago, and I have never seen it again. Alan Jones From stephen@obvious.motorsport.org.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:33 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:28:26 CST Message-ID: From: Stephen M Baines Reply-To: Stephen M Baines Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? References: <7pfao8$98m$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au> Organization: http://www.motorsport.org.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 U Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 31 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!netnews.globalip.ch!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!colt.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!newspeer1.nac.net!netnews.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:480 In article <7pfao8$98m$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>, Alan Jones writes >I have fond memories of a history of Grand Prix cars written by Cyril >Posthumous(?) about 1960. As an aside, when I've read articles written by Cyril Posthumous, I've wondered if it was a pen-name for someone else as well - the name sounds too ridiculous to be true... Anyway, a book I adore that includes an article or two by Cyril Posthumous is The "International Grand Prix book of Motor Racing" edited by Michael Frewin and published in 1964. It covers motor racing in the late 50's and early 60's and articles looking back to the pre-war years. It's very much about the scene and characters than individual races, and it was the book that ignited my passion for Nuvolari (with an article by Posthumous). I picked the book up about 10 years ago in a second hand shop for a £1 - the reasoning was rather odd, but I don't regret it. It was a couple of days after Paul Warwick had been killed, and he was one of the first drivers in junior categories for me to follow, and the first I'd followed to die. I picked up the book in the shop, and the introduction explained it all... Other favourites of mine are "Second Time Around" by Niki Lauda, which I've always found an interesting read, and "Enzo Ferrari The Man" by Gino Rancati which tells an enthralling tale about The Old Man. -- Stephen M Baines "Con mi vida hago lo que quiero" http://www.motorsport.org.uk One to watch: Charles Hall, Opel Euroseries From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:33 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:26:08 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pgbht$l1k$4@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 935047549 21556 62.136.62.157 (19 Aug 1999 07:25:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 1999 07:25:49 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 71 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:475 Pete Fenelon wrote > Two of the best driver biographies of recent(ish) drivers are > "Villeneuve" and "James Hunt" by Gerald Donaldson. Both get into the > minds of the drivers (unlike the usual Christopher Hilton > potboiler). Hilton's book on Gerhard Berger ain't bad, though. On the other hand, it would be hard to write a dull book about Berger, wouldn't it ;-). > The best driver bios I've come across are Chris Nixon's "Mon Ami > Mate" (Peter Collins and Mike Hawthorn), Eric Dymock's "Jim > Clark", and Nixon again with "Rosemeyer, A New Biography" > (co-authored with Elly Rosemeyer and really a biography of an > extraordinary couple). The other Nixon which I would highly recommend is 'Racing the Silver Arrows'. Covers the pre-war 'Golden Age' of Mercedes and Auto Union. Plenty of film scrips for Stallone in there. > Of driver autobiographies, Niki Lauda's ("To Hell And Back" and > "Second Time Round") are highly insightful > and entertaining and are easy to pick up secondhand... Innes > Ireland's"All Arms And Elbows" is by turns uproarious, moving > and terrifying, and Graham Hill's "Life At The Limit" an excellent > self-portrait. John Surtees - World Champion contains a lot > about his time on bikes and is very frank about the politics at Ferrari. There are a couple of excellent 'to and fro' style biogs by drivers and journalists amongst my favourites. 'Speed with Style' by Peter Revson and Leon Mandel and 'All but my LIfe' by Stirling Moss with Ken W Purdy. And, of course, we mustn't forget Duncan Hamilton's legendary 'Touch Wood'. > The standard reference on Ferrari in F1 is probably Alan Henry's > superb Autocourse work "Ferrari: The Grand Prix Cars"; however, > this stops in the late Eighties... If you can get hold of a copy of > the Ferrari 50th Anniversary book, do so - there's lots of fantastic >text and pictures in it. Don't forget Hans Tanner's 'Ferrari'. Very much the official history and available in a vast no. of updates over the years. Plenty in the second hand shops. Personally, for a short Ferrari injection, I would go for Pete Lyons' 'Ferrari, the machines and the man'. > Finally, for a comparison of driving skill and technique ancient and > modern, try a few books like Denis Jenkinson's "The Racing Driver" > and the Skip Barber School's "Going Faster". No to mention Frank Gardner's 'Castrol Racing Drivers' Manual'. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther British Racing Green: http://www.zing.com/album/ff/ff/a7/9/ffffa799.html From mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:35 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:29:06 CST From: mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson) Message-ID: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 31 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:444 "David Betts" wrote: > Christiian Marriott wrote > > > > I'd love to read more about the Senna/Prost/Mansell/Piquet era, > > which I grew up with, or about Senna > > himself, but would also be keen to read about F1 before I started > > following (pre 82/83). And anything to do with Ferrari. /Cars At Speed: The Grand Prix Circuit/, by Robert Daley, was one of the things that got me interested in F1 racing back in 1962. Long out of print, though. > Just finished Louis Stanley's new book, ' Strictly off the record', > which I purchased last week. Highly recommended to anyone who wants a > glimpse of what the sport was like before the current era, > particularly in the '50s and '60s. Well illustrated, too. Do be > prepared for it to be a bit gruesome, though. > > Published by Salamader Books. ISBN 1 84065 077 X. GBP18.99. Sounds interesting - thanks for the recommendation - however IIRC Stanley always stood out (even against the general F1 background) as one prone to twist things around to his own advantage. Should the reader come armed with a salt shaker? :-) Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson The entrepreneurial spirit is not rare in humankind. The problem is most people who have it, apply it to lunatic enterprises. - Mike O'Brien From ruddell@unibase.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:35 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 03:18:25 CST From: ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Message-ID: References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Organization: Ratbag & Mooch Ltd X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 934996639 142.165.128.48 (Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:17:19 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:17:19 CST Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 33 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!fu-berlin.de!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:447 In article <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com>, mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com says... > /Cars At Speed: The Grand Prix Circuit/, by Robert Daley, was one of > the things that got me interested in F1 racing back in 1962. Long out > of print, though. Well, there's one to add to my list of "Impossible Books I Must Find"... My interest in F1 was started after seeing the movie 'Grand Prix' with group of around 10 kids (I was 12). When leaving everyone but me thought it a lousy movie (hardly any crashes compared to the other motorsport shows at that time)...sheesh, glad I don't hang round with those guys today ;-) > Sounds interesting - thanks for the recommendation - however IIRC > Stanley always stood out (even against the general F1 background) as > one prone to twist things around to his own advantage. Should the > reader come armed with a salt shaker? :-) Lots of people can't stand Gerald Donaldson for being so choppy, yet I've enjoyed his work as he puts a lot of info in...I'm not exactly a writer so that doesn't bother me much... At the risk of being repetative, my all time favorite book about this sport is the one by Tony Rudd 'It Was Fun' Patrick Stephens Limited ISBN 1 85260 413 1 Dennis From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:35 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:26:42 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pgbhs$l1k$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 935047548 21556 62.136.62.157 (19 Aug 1999 07:25:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 1999 07:25:48 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 31 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:474 Dennis Ruddell wrote > > Lots of people can't stand Gerald Donaldson for being so choppy, > yet I've enjoyed his work as he puts a lot of info in...I'm not > exactly a writer so that doesn't bother me much... Donaldson's biog of Gilles and James Hunt are two of the best motorsport books of recent years. > At the risk of being repetative, my all time favorite book about > this sport is the one by Tony Rudd 'It Was Fun' One of my recent favourites as well, along with Eoin Young's 'It beats working'. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther The Ferrari Gallery: http://www.zing.com/album/ff/ff/b3/7/ffffb37f.html From ruddell@unibase.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:35 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 02:08:01 CST From: ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Message-ID: References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> <7pgbhs$l1k$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> Organization: Ratbag & Mooch Ltd X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 935078860 142.165.128.48 (Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:07:40 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:07:40 CST Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 28 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.tli.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!newsin.iconnet.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:487 In article <7pgbhs$l1k$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>, davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk says... > Donaldson's biog of Gilles and James Hunt are two of the best > motorsport books of recent years. I've got both those and agree with you...they are very good... There seems to be a bit of resentment toward Gerarld in this country...probably because of his involvement with a magazine which called 'Formula' which folded...a great effort which I still have some around (unfortuantely no all, but that's my fault)...after it folded I'd heard some comments about him that weren't all that nice, so it's likely just a bitter taste left over as F1 material here is very lean and that was really the only Canadian publication that focused just on F1... > One of my recent favourites as well, along with Eoin Young's 'It beats > working'. Like Rui said, this is going to be an expensive thread... I'll also check that McLaren book you both mentioned...looks like it was just re-released with a different title? thanks... Dennis From kim@foca.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:36 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 02:28:09 CST From: kim@foca.co.uk (Kim Andrews) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Formula One Cartoon Archive Reply-To: kim@foca.co.uk Message-ID: <37c22e96.20899095@news.powernet.co.uk> References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> <7pgbhs$l1k$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 19 Aug 1999 17:41:45 +0100, 195.60.5.32 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 20 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:488 On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 02:08:01 CST, ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) wrote: >Like Rui said, this is going to be an expensive thread... All the best things in life are expensive. Don't believe that "are free" nonsense. ;o) > >I'll also check that McLaren book you both mentioned...looks like it was >just re-released with a different title? I'll hang fire till you come to a conclusion, eh? Kimbo -- BotY competition now on at FOCA Formula One Cartoon Archive http://www.foca.co.uk From ruddell@unibase.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:36 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 04:16:19 CST From: ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Message-ID: References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> <7pgbhs$l1k$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <37c22e96.20899095@news.powernet.co.uk> Organization: Ratbag & Mooch Ltd X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.11 X-Trace: tomcat.sk.sympatico.ca 935086504 142.165.128.48 (Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:15:04 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:15:04 CST Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 26 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:492 In article <37c22e96.20899095@news.powernet.co.uk>, kim@foca.co.uk says... > On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 02:08:01 CST, ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) > wrote: > > > >Like Rui said, this is going to be an expensive thread... > All the best things in life are expensive. Don't believe that "are > free" nonsense. ;o) Sorry, lost my head for a minute... > > > > >I'll also check that McLaren book you both mentioned...looks like it was > >just re-released with a different title? Well, I don't have either one and if they are different then I'll only be out the one and still missing the one I originally was looking for to begin with ;-) > > I'll hang fire till you come to a conclusion, eh? Where you get that Canadian accent from ? Dennis From jon@svenskabio.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:36 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:33:04 CST From: "Jon Petersson" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Svenska Formel 1 Klubben Message-ID: <7piuth$13af$1@news.itv.se> References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> <7pgbhs$l1k$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Trace: news.itv.se 935132913 36175 195.66.61.230 (20 Aug 1999 07:08:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@itv.se NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Aug 1999 07:08:33 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 16 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:511 Dennis Ruddell wrote in message news:MPG.1225da04c9b81bac98968b@news.sk.sympatico.ca... > I'll also check that McLaren book you both mentioned...looks like it was > just re-released with a different title? I think this might be what you're looking for: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1852605111/jonpetersson It is a reprint of Eoin Young's 1970 book "McLaren! The man, the cars & the team". -- Jon Petersson (http://jon.svenskabio.com) Allez Jacques! Hyvä Mika! Vai Pedro! Go Damon! Forza Giancarlo! From davidb@dbassoc.freeserve.co.uk Wed Sep 15 13:59:37 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:26:17 CST From: "David Betts" Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: David Betts Associates Message-ID: <7pgbhu$l1k$5@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Reply-To: "David Betts" X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 935047550 21556 62.136.62.157 (19 Aug 1999 07:25:50 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Aug 1999 07:25:50 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 29 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:478 Mark Jackson wrote > > Sounds interesting - thanks for the recommendation - however IIRC > Stanley always stood out (even against the general F1 background) as > one prone to twist things around to his own advantage. Should the > reader come armed with a salt shaker? :-) Very much so. I don't know what Damon's done to upset him, for instance. Perhaps not shown him due deference. Wonderful anecdote about the trip to hospital by ambulance with wee Jackie after the Spa crash - Stewart (in shock?) is still chattering away nineteen to the dozen. Stanley says to him that he doesn't mind Stewart using his christian name under the circumstances, but would he please please pronounce it correctly. -- David Betts (davidb@motorsport.org.uk) "Believe me, when you did well against Stirling, you knew you'd really done something: he was the greatest I ever saw - by a long way" - Richie Ginther British Racing Green: http://www.zing.com/album/ff/ff/a7/9/ffffa799.html From jamie@shell.clark.net Wed Sep 15 13:59:37 1999 From: Jamie Clark Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: <199908181628.MAA15839@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Organization: Verio Mid-Atlantic, Columbia, MD USA Approved: rasf1m Approval Key User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980105 (UNIX) (SunOS/5.6 (sun4u)) Lines: 16 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:05:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.143.0.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 935863528 168.143.0.8 (Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:05:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:05:28 GMT Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-artgen.news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!shell.clark.net!jamie Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:667 Mark Jackson wrote: : "David Betts" wrote: :> Just finished Louis Stanley's new book, ' Strictly off the record', :> which I purchased last week. Highly recommended to anyone who wants a :> glimpse of what the sport was like before the current era, :> particularly in the '50s and '60s. Well illustrated, too. Do be :> prepared for it to be a bit gruesome, though. :> :> Published by Salamader Books. ISBN 1 84065 077 X. GBP18.99. I love Ken Purdy's "Book of Automobiles". Learned about F1 in 50's and early 60's via life about Stirling Moss. May be hard to get that book as it may be long out of print. Jamie Clark From mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:37 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:51:47 CST From: mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson) Message-ID: <199908190151.VAA16236@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 45 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:464 "Kim Andrews" remarks: > On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 02:45:48 CST, ruddell@unibase.com (Dennis Ruddell) > wrote: > > >In article <37cbdc8a.24901318@news.powernet.co.uk>, kim@foca.co.uk > >says... > > > >> Dennis, if you have any other details I'd be happy to call my local > >> excellent motor books shop which stocks new and used books and see if > >> they can help. > > > >That's the only one which sticks with me as the one that got away, but > >the publishing details, long gone. > Well, I'll see what they can do with just that. They'll be closed > now, I'll try tomorrow. Joggle my elbow if I forget. Anybody else... > you've got until tomorrow morning BSTish to add any requests this time > around! /McLaren! The Man, the Cars & the Team/, by Eoin S. Young; Bond, Parkhurst (1971). I see by the inscription that I got mine for Christmas in 1974. > >We do order from magazines etc when new books come out but we really > >can't get much info other than from those sources or when books are > >mentioned on ngs of course. Julie just called me and said that a site > >for rasf1m is being created. Maybe this could be a feature added to it > Oh goody! > > >or just mention your books/models where you sign the guest book and put > >it there? > An actual library index would be good. Better chap up whoever's going > to be looking after it. And here's something else useful I find on my automotive shelf: /The Constant Search: Collecting Motoring & Motorcycling Books/, by Charles Mortimer; Haynes (1982). Hardly up-to-date, particularly as to how difficult it is to find a particular title, but does give author, publisher, and edition dates. Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson The entrepreneurial spirit is not rare in humankind. The problem is most people who have it, apply it to lunatic enterprises. - Mike O'Brien From pete@fenelon.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:37 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:23:23 CST From: Pete Fenelon Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: <199908190151.VAA16236@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i586)) Message-ID: X-Trace: news.zetnet.co.uk 935090544 29328 news@194.247.40.227 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 13 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.corridex.com!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:495 Mark Jackson wrote: > /McLaren! The Man, the Cars & the Team/, by Eoin S. Young; Bond, > Parkhurst (1971). I see by the inscription that I got mine for > Christmas in 1974. Is this the same as "Bruce McLaren: The Man And His Racing Team" by ESY, published Eyre & Spottiswoode '71, reprinted in '95? pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" (HMHB) From ronbryce@ihug.co.nz Wed Sep 15 13:59:38 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:49:47 CST From: ronbryce@ihug.co.nz (Ron) Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Message-ID: <37be2421.180524748@news.ihug.co.nz> References: <199908190151.VAA16236@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 21 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!newsin.iconnet.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:516 On Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:23:23 CST, Pete Fenelon wrote: > >Mark Jackson wrote: >> /McLaren! The Man, the Cars & the Team/, by Eoin S. Young; Bond, >> Parkhurst (1971). I see by the inscription that I got mine for >> Christmas in 1974. > >Is this the same as "Bruce McLaren: The Man And His Racing Team" by ESY, >published Eyre & Spottiswoode '71, reprinted in '95? > >pete There is an even later reprint by Patrick Stephens Ltd 1995 which has additional material to mark the 25th anniversary of McLaren's death. You might also like to read EY's latest book "It Beats Working". Both are available online from Barnes & Noble. From mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:38 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:55:35 CST From: mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson) Message-ID: <199908190155.VAA16240@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 17 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:465 "Pete Fenelon" writes: > If you're excessively rich and can find them, the two-volume history by > Pomeroy and the accompanying volume by Setright will take you from the > turn of the century to 1965, but I can't afford them! (All three are > changing hands in the three-figure region now). My Setright goes through 1966. I greatly enjoyed reading Pomeroy (years ago, in the University of Illinois Engineering Library I believe) but don't have a copy (and despair of getting one; I expect that "three-figure region" is in pounds!). -- Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson The entrepreneurial spirit is not rare in humankind. The problem is most people who have it, apply it to lunatic enterprises. - Mike O'Brien From pete@fenelon.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:38 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 05:23:21 CST From: Pete Fenelon Subject: Re: Book recommendation? Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated References: <199908190155.VAA16240@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i586)) Message-ID: X-Trace: news.zetnet.co.uk 935090546 29328 news@194.247.40.227 Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 19 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.corridex.com!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!kiowa!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:494 Mark Jackson wrote: > My Setright goes through 1966. I greatly enjoyed reading Pomeroy > (years ago, in the University of Illinois Engineering Library I > believe) but don't have a copy (and despair of getting one; I expect > that "three-figure region" is in pounds!). Too right. :( I daren't even look at copies of Pomeroy or Setright in much detail for fear that my credit card will teleport from my wallet into my hand and I'll leave the shop with a big grin on my face. (I was at a meeting at an MoD establishment in London a few years ago where "lunch" was appalling, so I ducked out and came back 20 minutes later with a slice of pizza and nearly 200 quid blown in Motor Books and Foyle's...) pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" (HMHB) From mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com Wed Sep 15 13:59:38 1999 Return-Path: X-Relay-IP: 130.194.74.164 X-Authentication-Warning: ElectricMonk.dgs.monash.edu.au: rasf1m set sender to devnull@stump.algebra.com using -f X-RASF1M-Policy: http://www.vollans.demon.co.uk/rasf1m/ X-RASF1M-Info-1: Send submissions to rasf1m@motorsport.org.uk X-RASF1M-Info-2: Send complaints to rasf1m-admin@motorsport.org.uk X-Comment: moderators do not necessarily agree or disagree with this article. X-Robomod: STUMP, ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov), C++/Perl/Unix Consulting Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:45:35 CST From: mjackson@wc.eso.mc.xerox.com (Mark Jackson) Message-ID: <199908200244.WAA17286@yngvi.eso.mc.xerox.com> Subject: Re: Book recommendation? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated Approved: rasf1m Approval Key Lines: 20 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!news.alt.net!rasf1m.ElectricMonk!robomod!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1.moderated:505 "Pete Fenelon" writes: > Mark Jackson wrote: > > /McLaren! The Man, the Cars & the Team/, by Eoin S. Young; Bond, > > Parkhurst (1971). I see by the inscription that I got mine for > > Christmas in 1974. > > Is this the same as "Bruce McLaren: The Man And His Racing Team" by ESY, > published Eyre & Spottiswoode '71, reprinted in '95? I would think so; I find no actual cross-reference, but right above the ISBN (0-87880-007-7) I find "English edition published by Eyre and Spottiswoode (Publishers) Limited, London." Perhaps the title changed with the 1995 reprint? Mark Jackson - http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~mjackson The entrepreneurial spirit is not rare in humankind. The problem is most people who have it, apply it to lunatic enterprises. - Mike O'Brien From pete@fenelon.com Mon Sep 27 11:34:21 1999 From: Pete Fenelon Subject: Re: Stirling Moss on Letterman Show Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport.f1 References: <7sg827$45q$1@news.gov.on.ca> <19990924183829.22856.00001827@ng-cf1.aol.com> <01bf06f8$b11a2540$47c943a0@radi23560> <01bf0837$ec278660$47c943a0@radi23560> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.36 (i586)) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:02:42 +0100 Message-ID: <2b8ns7.rq1.ln@fenelon.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-053.dialup.zetnet.co.uk X-Trace: news.zetnet.co.uk 938422050 25059 news@194.247.41.66 Lines: 12 Path: rena.mat.uc.pt!rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: rena.mat.uc.pt rec.autos.sport.f1:369480 Hans V wrote: > The name of the book is of course "Jenks - a passion for motor sport". Not > always easy to get the spelling and the words right - especially after a > few glasses of Cab Sauv. Also well worth getting hold of is Jenks' "The Racing Driver". A marvellous attmept at a scientific analysis of what makes drivers go quickly, full of anecdote and insight as well as Jenks' theorising. pete -- pete@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" (HMHB)