Subject: Overview:645 camera choices From: distorted1@aol.com (Distorted1) Date: 1996/04/13 Message-Id: <4kpb9a$m4o@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Reply-To: distorted1@aol.com (Distorted1) Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.medium-Format 6x4.5 format cameras available today: Pentax 645 Mamiya 645 Pro Bronica ETRsi Kiev 645 (Kiev 60 with a 645 gate) R'finder cameras: Fuji 645/645w/645AF Older choices (minus the ancient): Mamiya 645, 645j, 6451000s, 645 Super Bronica ETR, ETRs, ETRc The first thing that anyone looking for a 645 camera should consider is whether an interchangeable back option is of paramount importance. The Pentax 645 lacks this feature (as do the older Mamiya 645 100s, 645 and 645j as well as Bronica's ETRC) and so, the fiber optic NPC Polaback costs more than $1500, negating the substantial price savings that the Pentax has from its built-in AE prism and winder. Pentax 645: The camera is very well built and reliable. flexibility: It's got the only macro lens that focusses to 1:1 directly. The only builtin motor and AE prism and the 300/4 ED, 35/3.5 and 600 5.6 ED (Each one a bargain for what it is). It's the only camera with a 70mm option. It's missing large selections of Leaf lenses, Mirror lock, spot metering and AE lock. Still, it is (by far) the most camera for the money. It also accepts the full line of Pentax 67 lenses and so is the only 645 that readily accepts the exceptional 400/4 ED usability: It handles very nicely but has quirks. The shutter speeds are hard to set; exposure compensation is in full stop increments. I'd say that it is the worst of the three available 645's in terms of usability. Does have a few unique advantages here though. It is the only 645 (focal plane shuttered 645, that is) that is close to quiet and has extremely effective mirror dampening (best of any 2 1/4 camera IMO). Has ttl flash as well. quality of the lenses: Beautiful, metal barreled, sharp; with silky smooth rings and great quality. The best reason to buy the camera. Star lenses for the Ptx 645 are the 35, 45, 75, 120, 150, 300 and 600. ruggedness: The camera is incredibly tough. I bought two, very, very heavily used bodies from a famed fashion/catalog studio and they work just fine. The Mamiya and Bronica alternatives make 645 shopping probably the toughest decision in medium format. Any one is a great camera, all for different reasons. The Mamiya 645 pro is very flexible and has the largest lens selection but (IMO) is not built to the same standard as the Pentax is. Still, this is the camera that I use on 99% of my shooting and it works just fine. The motor is expensive and loud and the lenses (though beautifully sharp) have a habit of breaking the focus stop pins and end up helicoid-separating (my 55,80 and 210 have all done this. My friends two, sequential 80's, his 150 and his 45 have done this as well). If I had a choice, I'd drop a Pentax 645 WAY before I'd drop one of the Mamiyas. On the plus side, the metering system can't be beat (the Bronica AE3 prism does almost everything this meter does. I don't know how well though) and the backs interchange. If you want Superspeed, long lenses; it's the pro (in 645)(300 2.8, 500 4.5 at mid level automobile prices). Modularity is a nice thing too. The leaf shutter option is almost livable with this camera but metering with these lenses is a rough exercise. Star lenses for the Mam 645 are the 45, 110 and the 150 3.5 with the 35, 210, 500 APO and 300 2.8 coming up great but too expensive) The Mamiya 645 system is slowly being priced out of the realm of the reasonable, if you're serious about buying one, buy a demo or an 'SV' pack. The Bronica is, without doubt, the best option if you use fill flash. The lenses are very good (In terms of results, all three lines test about equally in German and French photozines) and the system is well built. The ETRsi adds TTL flash and lots of plastic, to the more robustly metal ETRS design. There are plenty of lenses to chose from and the system offers most of the advantages of both the Mamiya 645 pro and the Pentax 645, all in a camera that uses leaf shuttered lenses. The PE lenses are supposed to be much better than the older E series; I used to assist a guy who made heavy use of an ETRs system and the results were great (especially the 150mm); al used were E lenses. The 100/4 macro is the same lens in its E and PE incarnations (it was introduced about a month before the PE line) and so would be a better buy in E version. Big caveat is that the system is expensive and the lenses are usually a half stop slower (50 2.8, 75 2.8 and 150 3.5 are the same as the Mam/Pentax counterparts) and don't focus as closely ( the really long lenses are at least a stop through 2 stops slower). This camera is particularly attractive on the used market as it doesn't hold its value as well as the others and so, becomes quite inexpensive used. In the end, I doubt that anyone would be dis-satisfied with any of these cameras so long as they paid attention to the question of whether they needed interchangeable backs In use the Mamiya 645 Super/Pro only has a tough time metering with the LS (leaf) lenses attached otherwise, it has the best meter in 645'dom (or second best to the also great ETRsi's AE3, depending on whom you ask). It offers many of the same kind of speedy lenses that the Pentax 67 has (the 80 1.9 and 150 2.8 APO) and in alot of ways, sets the standard for the other 645's to follow. The Bronica used to offer some Schnieder lenses that were pretty great (55/4 PCS, 75-150 and 125-250) but the Pentax, with its new 45-85/4.5 and it's 80-160 4.5 and the Mamiya, with its 55-110 4.5, 75-150/4.5 and 105-210 5.6 APO are pleasantly zoomed as well; all are bit pricey though. I made light of the prices of Mamiya's 300 2.8 and 500 4.5 and though Pentax's 600 5.6 ED does make Mamiya's 500 4.5 seem ridiculously overpriced, it should be said that Mamiya is not the only company to offer obscenely priced lenses; actually, I'd give the award for most expensive/least useful lens to Bronica for the $11,000 ETR/SQ 500/8 APO. Even the APO RZ 500 (at a better F6) is $5000 less. For landscape and nature work on a budget the Pentax cameras are really good choices. Both offer excellent (Best, widest and longest, fastest, least expensive) lens choices and both are reliable and reasonably small. Fuji offers some alternative cameras on the 6x4.5 and 6x7 rangefinder fronts as well. The newest Fuji 645 offers the worlds first 645 autofocus and has tested well in a German magazine I saw this month. it has a 60/4, info imprint on the film edge and vertically oriented normal hold position. It has a full info finder and spot metering . Fuji's older 645's (one folded, one didn't and another had a wider lens, I believe) had the same vertical hold, but I don't think it had the same lens as it was notorious for its poor wide open performance. The Fuji 67 is a film plane masked version of the Fuji 690 and has the same 90 3.5 lens (supposed to be quite good). There were a number of these starting with an interchangable lens version and ending with a restyled, 2nd shutter release added, current model. None of these had/have meters but people who've reported on them here in the past seem to be pleased except for size and noise concerns. Fuji also offers a camera called the GX680II that could concievably be thought of as the Rollei SL66 of larger than 66 but smaller than 69 cameras (it's a 6x8 format) as it offers front movements and even a few very fast lenses (a 180 3.2 comes to mind). It's an auto exposure capable machine that takes interchangable everything (Ala' RZ) and is motorized from the get go. I know a few photographers who swear by this camera, saying that it gives unbeatable results but it is absolutely huge and I can't concieve of handholding this 4x5 view sized, cinder block weighing camera. Danny.