From gnu.mat.uc.pt!news.rccn.net!Portugal.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!gw1.att.com!nntpa!not-for-mail Tue Oct 10 10:30:30 1995 Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc Path: gnu.mat.uc.pt!news.rccn.net!Portugal.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!decwrl!lll-winken.llnl.gov!fnnews.fnal.gov!gw1.att.com!nntpa!not-for-mail From: rma@clockwise.mh.att.com (Robert M Atkins) Subject: ALL ABOUT THE NEW REC.PHOTO NEWSGROUPS (LONG!) Message-ID: Sender: news@nntpa.cb.att.com (Netnews Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: clockwise.mh.att.com Organization: AT&T Bell Labs Div111 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:54:21 GMT Lines: 1218 I'm still getting a bunch of email about the new groups, so I'm posting this guide to try to answer future email before it gets sent! CONTENTS: (1) Where are the new groups (2) What are the current rec.photo groups (3) How do I decide where to post (4) WHat are the group charters (5) What are general newsgroup guidelines Bob Atkins AT&T BEll Labs, Murray Hill, NJ Email: rma@clockwise.att.com **************************************************************************** (1) Where are the new groups? They should be on your system by now. If they haven't shown up, you might want to send a polite note to you system administrator (typical email address would be "help", "postmaster" or "root") asking why the new groups are not available. At this point, it's up to you and your system administrator to make sure the groups are installed. Control mesages were sent out. If your system didn't act on them, it's now a local issue for you to deal with. With 10000+ newsites out there, some are bound to have problems. Usenet and the Internet are not perfect systems. ************************************************************************** (2) What rec.photo groups currently exist? There are 14 groups. They are: rec.photo.misc rec.photo.darkroom rec.photo.marketplace rec.photo.moderated (moderated) Rec.photo.digital Rec.photo.equipment.35mm Rec.photo.equipment.large-format Rec.photo.equipment.medium-format Rec.photo.equipment.misc Rec.photo.film+labs Rec.photo.technique.art Rec.photo.technique.misc Rec.photo.technique.nature Rec.photo.technique.people **************************************************************************** (3) How do I decide where to post? This is a very brief guide to posting in the new rec.photo hierarchy. It's not a substitute for reading the group charters, but it's a lot shorter. When in doubt, read the group charters. [0] Is the posting a binary image file (JPEG, GIF etc)? If so, don't post it. Binary postings are not permitted in the rec groups, including the rec.photo groups. Check out the alt.binaries.pictures groups. [1] Is the posting an advertisment for a business or service? If so, then DON'T POST IT! The group charters all explicitly prohibit commercial advertising. [2] Are you selling a an item of *personal* used equipment related to photography, or are you looking to buy such equipment? If so, then post in rec.photo.marketplace. [3] Is the post about darkroom work? That includes any *non-digital* item of darkroom equipment or any (chemical) darkroom technique If so, post in rec.photo.darkroom [4] Is the post about digital imaging, including PhotoCD, scanners, printers and software? If so post in rec.photo.digital [5] Is the post about film or commercial photofinishing services? If so, post in rec.photo.film+labs [7] Is the post about a 35mm camera body or lens? If so, post in rec.photo.equipment.35mm [8] Is the post about a medium format camera body or lens? If so. post in rec.photo.equipment.medium-format [9] Is the post about a large format camera or lens? If so, post in rec.photo.equipment.large-format [10] Is the post about some other item of equipment - e.g. tripod, projector, camera bag, battery, flash system, filter etc. If so then post in rec.photo.equipment.misc [11] Is the post about photographing people - e.g. portrait work, wedding photography etc. If so, then post in rec.photo.technique.people [12] Is the post about photographing nature - e.g. wildlife, landscapes etc. If so then post in rec.photo.technique.nature [13] Is the post about photography as art - e.g. what makes a picture "art", How do you display an "art" photography, etc. If so, post in rec.photo.technique.art [14] Is the post about some other photgraphic technique - e.g. medical photography, architectural photography, sports photography? If so, post in rec.photo.technique.misc [15] If the post doesn't fit into any of the above then post in rec.photo.misc. [16] There is also rec.photo.moderated. All submissions to this group are reviewed by the group moderator and may be rejected if inappropriate for the group. Look at the group to see what kind of postings are appropriate. Generally any serious question about photography will be OK. The one-line group descriptor is "the art and science of photography". This group will not normally carry discussions of the "what's the best XXXX" type, where XXX may be "P&S camera", "100mm lens", "SLR body" etc. ****************************************************************************** (4) Just exactly what *are* the group charters? CHARTER: rec.photo.digital rec.photo.digital - Digital cameras, scanners, printers, software, PhotoCD This group is for the discussion of all aspects of digital photography, including digital cameras, scanners, image manipulation software, printers, and CD-ROM technology. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is an any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.technique.nature rec.photo.technique.nature Wildlife, landscapes, travel tips etc. This group is for the discussion of the techniques involved in nature photography and other peripheral issues. It is not intended for discussions of equipment except where a piece of equipment is directly related to some other technique issue. Strictly equipment discussions should take place in the relevant equipment group. Issues appropriate for this group would be ethics of nature photography, questions about locations for nature photography, questions about how to most effectively *USE* equipment, questions about projected flash techniques, questions about macro techniques, etc. Examples of appropriate question involving equipment might be: * What's the most useful fixed focal length lens for landscapes, 20, 24 or 28mm? * Is a 300/4 or 400/5.6 lens more useful for wildlife work? * Is mirror lock up really useful in nature photography? * Is autofocus really needed for nature photography? Inappropriate equipment related questions would be: * Is the Canon 24/2.8 better than the Sigma 24/2.8? * Is the Canon 300/4L better than the Sigma 400/5.6 APO? * What's the best 100-300mm zoom lens? * Does anyone have test reports on the Nikon 80-200/2.8? All questions about specific items of equipment belong in the equipment groups. Tagging on a nature comment such as "is lens A better than lens B - FOR NATURE WORK", does *NOT* make them appropriate for the technique group! All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.technique.people rec.photo.technique.people Portraits, figure studies, weddings etc. This group is for postings related to the photography of people. This includes portraits, figure studies, abstracts, nudes etc. It is not intended for the discussion of equipment except as related to other issues of technique. Suitable topics for posting would include lighting, posing, models, releases, wedding photography etc. Examples of appropriate question involving equipment might be: * What's the best focal length for portrait photography? * Do I really need to move to medium format for weddings? * Are soft focus lenses/filters really useful? Inappropriate equipment related questions would be: * What's the best 85mm f1.8 lens? * Should I buy a Canon or Nikon system? * Are Sigma lenses just as good as Zeiss lenses? These latter 3 questions all belong in the relevant equipment subgroup. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.technique.art rec.photo.technique.art Issues of fine art, framing, display This group is for postings related to art issues in photography. These would include what "art" really is, discussions of particular photographs and what makes them art, mounting and displaying pictures as art, fine art photography etc. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.technique.misc rec.photo.technique.misc Misc non-equipment posts about technique This group is for the discussion of issues of technique which are not covered by any other technique group. Such subjects might include sports photography, aerial photography, architectural photography, scientific photography, photomicroscopy, copy work etc. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.equipment.large-format rec.photo.equipment.large-format - Large format cameras and lenses This group is for the discussion of any issues related to large format equipment. Large format cameras are normally taken to be those which record their images on individual plates, rather than on roll film, and in which the image size is 4" x 5" or larger. Such cameras are often referred to as "view cameras" and focusing is normally achieved by observing the image on a ground glass screen, which is replaced by the photographic plate prior to exposure. "Plate" in this case refers to either glass plates, or individual sheets of photographic film. The 4" x 5" specification above is not intended to exclude cameras using smaller film size, should they possess the other characteristics of "large_format" or "view" cameras. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.equipment.medium-format rec.photo.equipment.medium-format - Medium format cameras and lenses This group would be for the discussion of issues related to medium format equipment. Medium format cameras are normally taken to be cameras in which 120 or 620 size roll film is used, producing images in the range of 6cm x 4.5cm to 6cm x 9cm. The cameras used are typically either single lens reflex, twin lens reflex or scale (or rangefinder) focusing. The discussion of panoramic cameras using 120 film size would also be appropriate for this group. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.equipment.35mm rec.photo.equipment.35mm - 35mm cameras and lenses This group is for the discussion of all aspects of 35mm camera equipment. This includes 35mm SLR camera bodies and lenses, 35mm point-and-shoot cameras, 35mm rangefinder cameras, 35mm scale focus cameras and 35mm half-frame cameras. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.equipment.misc rec.photo.equipment.misc Other formats, tripods, projectors, bags etc. This group is for the discussion of equipment not covered by any other equipment group. This would include tripods, projectors and screens, camera bags, lighting equipment, batteries, flash equipment, light meters, filters. Equipment related to digital photography or home darkroom use should be posted to either rec.photo.digital or rec.photo.darkroom respectively, rather than in this group. Postings about cameras not covered by the other equipments groups (e.g. subminiature) may be made in this group. Postings about movie cameras using film (but not video cameras, which are covered in the rec.video groups) would also be appropriate. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. CHARTER: rec.photo.equipment.film+labs rec.photo.equipment.film+labs Film and commercial photofinishing This group is for the discussion of photographic film of any format and type. It is anticipated that the discussions will concern the imaging characteristics of the film and conditions under which each film type of film will give optimum results. This group is also for the discussion of *COMMERCIAL* photofinishing services, i.e. recommendations for and comments on photo labs, It is *NOT* for advertising by such labs. Postings about film development related to home darkroom use should be posted to rec.photo.darkroom, not rec.photo.film+labs. All postings made to this group should conform to existing Usenet guidelines (see news.announce.newusers for guideline documents). This group explicitly prohibits the posting of commercial advertisments or other promotional material, whether or not it is in any way related to photography. Binary postings (i.e. non text postings) are prohibited. rec.photo.marketplace Trading of personal photgraphic equipment rec.photo.marketplace will contain all "for sale" and "wanted" postings. These posting will be restricted to the private sale of personally owned and used equipment. This newsgroup specifically does *not* permit commercial advertising, postings by dealers selling or soliciting equipment, or postings by amateurs regularly dealing in used equipment principally or incidentally for purposes of financial gain. It is intended as a forum in which photographers can sell, trade or request equipment in connection with their individual photographic interests. Postings which receive no replies should *NOT* be reposted for at least one week after the initial posting and should not be repeatedly reposted without material change. Replies (other than factual corrections) should be sent *only* by email and *never* posted in rec.photo.marketplace. Advertisers should include a telephone number if possible in case there are problems with email connections (and email problems are not unusal!). rec.photo.darkroom Developing, printing and other darkroom issues This newsgroup will contain postings related to all aspects of photographic darkroom use. As such it will cover subjects such as the developing of slide and negative film, photographic printing from negatives and slides, photographic toning processes and alternative chemistry. This newsgroup specifically does *NOT* permit the posting of commercial advertisments for products or services, even if they are related to photography. rec.photo.misc General issues related to photography This newsgroup will deal with postings on all subjects not specifically covered by the other rec.photo newsgroups. Any and all postings concerning the recreational use of photography will be appropriate for inclusion in this newsgroup. Such postings might include (but are not limited to) announcements of photographic shows, requests for travel related photographic information, book reviews, discussions of ethical issues, general discussions about the "death of photography", discussion of the work of famous photographers, philosophy etc. This newsgroup specifically does *NOT* permit the posting of commercial advertisments for products or services, even if they are related to photography. CHARTER for rec.photo.moderated Rec.photo.moderated is a moderated Usenet newsgroup for the discussion of topics related to the art and science of photography and that are of interest to the serious amateur recreational photographer. MODERATION CRITERIA Articles must be relevant to the art or science of photography and of interest to serious amateur recreational photographers, must be in reasonably good taste, and must conform to Usenet guidelines. Suitable topics include: the technical aspects of photographic equipment, technique, optics, film, photographic philosophy, ethics and conduct, photography as fine art, and brief reviews of new products and announcements of events. Other topics may be accepted at the moderators' discretion, with the main criterion being interest to serious amateur recreation photographers. Articles about topics usually associated with commercial/professional photography may be accepted on a limited basis as long as they are relevant to serious amateur recreational photographers. Thus, for example, postings regarding wedding photography may be accepted if they meet the relevancy test, but articles regarding the business aspects of wedding photography are not acceptable. Advertising is prohibited, except that brief notices of events, shows, workshops, and the like will be considered if they relate to the art or science of photography and are of interest to serious amateur recreational photographers. Postings must bear the submitter's real name and contain a valid reply address. Authors that are affiliated with or have other financial interest in manufacturers, distributors, or service providers must disclose this fact in postings mentioning those products or services. Picture (binary) postings are not accepted. The moderators reserve the right to cut off the discussion of a topic when its "signal to noise ratio" has dropped too low and reject postings on recently discussed topics. They will also normally reject postings comparing or seeking comparisons of equipment, "what xxx should I buy?" and "me too" postings, and postings asking questions the author could have answered for himself/herself with a minimal amount of work. Flames will be rejected. Postings may be rejected because of inappropriate crossposting, and postings to multiple moderated groups will normally be rejected. (Approved FAQs, RFDs, and CFVs are a special case.) *************************************************************************** (5) What about some *general* posting guidelines? GENERAL USENET GUIDELINES Archive-name: posting-rules/part1 Original-author: mark@stargate.com (Mark Horton) Comment: enhanced & edited until 5/93 by spaf@cs.purdue.edu (Gene Spafford) Last-change: 29 Apr 1994 by netannounce@deshaw.com (Mark Moraes) This message describes some of the rules of conduct on Usenet. The rules vary depending on the newsgroup. Some newsgroups are intended for discussions and some for announcements or queries. It is not usually a good idea to carry on discussions in newsgroups that are designated otherwise. It is never a good idea to carry on "meta-discussions" about whether a given discussion is appropriate -- such traffic mushrooms until nobody can find articles that belong. If you are unhappy with what some user said, send him/her mail, don't post it. Before posting, think about where your article is going. If it's posted to a "comp", "news", "misc", "soc", "sci", "rec" or "talk" newsgroup, it will probably go to the sites on every continent with an estimated audience of more than 3 million potential readers. Certain articles are only of local interest (e.g. used car ads) and it is inappropriate to post them to the whole world. Use the "Distribution" feature to restrict distribution to your local area. If you don't know how to use this feature, read the "Frequently Submitted Items" in another article in news.announce.newusers. (Note, however, that some sites have broken software or improperly configured news systems, so sometimes use of a "Distribution" header may not work.) Be considerate with your use of network resources. Your individual usage may not seem like much compared to the net as a whole, but in aggregate, small savings in disk or CPU add up to a great deal. For instance, messages offering thanks, jibes, or congratulations will only need to be seen by the interested parties -- send these by mail rather than posting them. The same goes for simple questions, and especially for any form of "me too" posting. To help minimize some transfer load and disk usage throughout the Usenet, consider not only how many groups should carry your posting over what distribution area, but also how long it will be useful. Many kinds of postings -- such as those making announcements or offers -- have a obvious useful lifetime. Posted questions that aren't answered within a decent interval probably won't be answered at all, and announcements will have a limited lifetime. All such postings will be using bandwidth to no purpose after a certain time. When making such postings one should determine what that time interval is, based upon the nature of the posting, the volume of articles on the newsgroup(s) involved, and the habits of the audience, if known. Then include an expiration date in the posting. This will mark the date after which the article should not be retained at each site. To include an expiration date in an article, when posting insert a line in the header below the "Newsgroups:" line with the expiration. For instance, type "Expires: 5 Feb 92" to have the article expire after Feb 5, 1992. Most news software will also accept expiration dates of the form "Expires: +5days". Please do NOT set expiration dates far into the future simply to have the article stay around. Many sites expire old articles no matter what the header indicates, so you are unlikely to achieve much other than clutter the disk on a few sites. Default expiration is normally in the range of 7 to 21 days, depending on disk space at each site. Don't post announcements regarding major news events (e.g. the space shuttle has just exploded!) to news groups. By the time most people receive such items, they will long since have been informed by conventional media. If you wish to discuss such an event on the net, use the "misc.headlines" newsgroup. Announcement of professional products or services on Usenet is allowed, [Note, this is *NOT* the case for rec.photo.* newsgroups - see charters] provided suitable restraint is exercised. Since someone else is paying the phone bills for this, it is important that it be of overall benefit to Usenet. Post such information ONLY to comp.newprod -- never to a general purpose newsgroup such as "misc.misc". comp.newprod is a moderated group; you can get the submission guidelines from the article "Welcome to comp.newprod", posted periodically to comp.newprod and news.answers. You can also get this article by sending a mail message to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the single line: send usenet-by-group/news.answers/newprod General guidelines: Clearly mark your article as a product announcement in the subject. Never repeat these -- one article per product at the most; preferably group everything into one article. Advertising hype is especially frowned upon -- stick to technical facts. Obnoxious or inappropriate announcements or articles violating this policy will generally be rejected. This policy is, of course, subject to change if it becomes a problem. There exists an alternative hierarchy called "biz" specifically for commercial postings. See the articles "Alternative Newsgroup Hierarchies, Part I" and "Alternative Newsgroup Hierarchies, Part II", posted periodically to several newsgroups, including news.announce.newusers. You can also get these articles by sending a mail message to mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the lines: send usenet-by-group/news.answers/alt-hierarchies/part1 send usenet-by-group/news.answers/alt-hierarchies/part2 Some newsgroups are moderated. In these groups, you cannot post directly, either by convention or because the software prevents it. To post to these newsgroups, send mail to the moderator. Examples: Newsgroup Moderator Purpose --------- --------- ------- news.announce.important announce@stargate.com Important announcements for everyone. comp.std.unix std-unix@uunet.uu.net Unix standards discussion. rec.food.recipes recipes@taronga.com Sharing favorite recipes. Some newsgroups have special purpose rules: Newsgroup Rules --------- ----- news.announce.important Moderated, no direct postings, important things only. misc.wanted Queries, "I want an x", "Anyone want my x?". No discussions. Don't post to more than one xxx.wanted. Use the smallest appropriate wanted (e.g. used car ads to nj.wanted.) Requests for sources, termcaps, etc. should go to the "comp.sources.wanted" newsgroup. rec.humor Clean humor only; anything offensive must be rotated; no discussions -- humor only. Discussions go in rec.humor.d rec.arts.movies Don't post anything revealing part of a movie without marking it (spoiler) in the subject. rec.arts.* Same as movies -- mark spoilers in the subject line. news.groups Discussions about new groups: whether to create them and what to call them. Don't post yes/no votes, mail them to the author misc.test Use the smallest test group possible, e.g. "test" or "ucb.test". Say in the body of the message what you are testing. It is perfectly legal to reproduce short extracts of a copyrighted work for critical purposes, but reproduction in whole is strictly and explicitly forbidden by US and international copyright law. (Otherwise, there would be no way for the artist to make money, and there would thus be less motive for people to go to the trouble of making their art available at all. The crime of theft is as serious in this context as any other, even though you may not have to pick locks, mask your face, or conceal merchandise.) It is generally considered rude to post private e-mail correspondence without the permission of the author of that mail. Furthermore, under copyright statutes, the author of the e-mail possesses a copyright on mail that he or she wrote; posting it to the net or mailing it on to others without permission of the author is likely a violation of that copyright as well as being rude. All opinions or statements made in messages posted to Usenet should be taken as the opinions of the person who wrote the message. They do not necessarily represent the opinions of the employer of that person, the owner of the computer from which the message was posted, or anyone involved with Usenet or the underlying networks of which Usenet is made up. All responsibility for statements made in Usenet messages rests with the individual posting the message. Posting of information on Usenet is to be viewed as similar to publication. Because of this, do not post instructions for how to do some illegal act (such as jamming radar or obtaining cable TV service illegally); also do not ask how to do illegal acts by posting to the net. If you have a standard signature you like to append to your articles, and you are running a form of news software that supports automatic inclusion of a signature file, it is usually enabled by putting it in a file called .signature in your home directory. The posting software you use should automatically append it to your article. Please keep your signatures concise, as people do not appreciate seeing lengthy signatures, nor paying the phone bills to repeatedly transmit them. 2 or 3 lines are usually plenty. Sometimes it is also appropriate to add another line or two for addresses on other major networks where you can be reached (e.g., CompuServ, Bitnet). Long signatures are definitely frowned upon. DO NOT include drawings, pictures, maps, or other graphics in your signature -- it is not the appropriate place for such material and is viewed as rude by other readers. If you post an article and remember something you've left out or realize you've made a factual error, you can cancel the article and (if canceled quickly enough) prevent its distribution. Then you can correct whatever was wrong and post a new copy. In "rn", "trn", "nn" and "readnews", (and probably most other newsreaders) an article that you posted can be canceled with the "C" command. In "tin", use "D" (delete) to cancel an article. Newer newsreaders typically offer "Cancel" from a menu. Be aware, however, that some people may have already read the incorrect version so the sooner you cancel something, the better. Before posting a question to the net (especially one that you think will be easy for experts to answer), consider carefully whether posting is the most appropriate way to get the answer. There are many ways to find answers without using up network resources and forcing thousands of people to read your question (and several helpful volunteers to spend time responding). Many newsgroups have a Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) list that is posted periodically (usually every few weeks), and they are also usually cross-posted to news.answers. They usually have explicit expiration dates set, so they shouldn't be expired until a new version has been posted, so if you can't find the FAQ in either the newsgroup or news.answers, there probably isn't one (thus, it's probably not useful to post a question asking whether there is one). If you have local experts (or simply more experienced users than yourself) at your site, try asking them before posting. If you're trying to find where you can FTP software or a newsgroup archive, try using the Archie service; see postings in news.answers for details. Many newsgroups are also archived in Wide Area Information Service (WAIS) databases; WAIS client software may be FTPed from ftp.think.com, or you may use WAIS by telnetting to quake.think.com and logging in as "wais". Finally, you should also check the manuals for your system; if you don't, and you post a question that's answered there, you'll likely receive a number of responses that scream "RTFM" (Read the F*ing Manual). When you post, post to all the newsgroups at the same time rather than posting a separate copy to each newsgroup. By posting a single article to all the newsgroups you wish to reach, the news software is able to transfer a single copy. Furthermore, users with "smart" newsreaders will see the article only once. Making separate postings of your article for each newsgroup you wish to reach tends to annoy readers rather than emphasize the message content as well as waste computational resources. All newsreaders should have two ways to post a news article. First, there is an original posting; this is used whenever you are starting a new topic. Second, there is a "followup"; this is used when you are posting a response to another news article. In several newsreaders, including "rn", the "f" command usually generates an original posting if your current position is at the end of the newsgroup, but a followup when you have a current article; you can also use the "Pnews" command outside of rn to make an original posting. The news posting software does special things in the second case that indicates to the news system that this article is "related" to the article to which you are following up. First, the newsreader adds "Re: " before the existing subject line to tell people that this is "regarding" a previous article. Second, the software adds a "References" line that contains the Message-ID of the article you are following up. This header is used by threaded news readers such as "trn" to follow "threads" of discussion. It is important that these two posting methods not be confused. Don't follow up to articles without using the newsreader's "followup" mechanism. Conversely, don't use the followup mechanism to post an article that is an unrelated thread. Violating this convention sometimes leads to confusion and annoyance of users with threaded newsreaders. When posting a followup, be careful about newsgroups. The article that you're responding to might have been cross-posted to several newsgroups, and by default your followup will go to ALL of those newsgroups. Or the article might have a Followup-To line in its header, and in that case, by default your followup will go where the Followup-To line says -- which might not be the newsgroup where you're reading the article. You should ensure that your article is posted only to newsgroups where its actual content is appropriate. Sometimes it's better to leave the newsgroups on your own article the same as they were, but put a Followup-To line in its header to confine followups to an appropriate group. In any case, it's best for articles that have a Followup-To line to be posted to whatever groups are mentioned in that line, and to mention in the text of the article that followups are redirected. The idea is for the threads of articles to make sense in each newsgroup where the articles appear, for people who don't read the others. if you don't immediately see your posting, don't immediately assume it failed and try to repost it. Some sites have set up the local software to process news periodically. Thus, your article will not appear immediately. If you post again, you will have multiple copies of the article in circulation. If the news system rejects a followup due to "more quoted lines than new text," please do not use "filler" lines to make up for this. Instead, if after careful editing, you have more to quote than to write, change the citation character. For example, in the display editor vi, you could use the incantation: :%s/^>//'s that are not being used as the citation character. (In particular, it will damage the "References" line in the article header.) In preparing an article, be aware that other people's machines are not the same as yours. The following is a list of things to keep in mind: * Keep your lines under 80 characters, and under 72 if possible (so that the lines won't get longer than 80 when people include them when responding to your postings). Most editors have a fill or format mode that will do this for you automatically. Make sure that it actually puts ("hard") newline characters into the file, rather than just wrapping the displayed lines on your screen. * Right justified text may look "prettier" in some sense, but it is almost always harder to read than leaving ragged right margins; don't justify your articles. * Most special control characters will not work for most readers. In fact, the space character is about the only one you can be sure will work consistently. Even tabs aren't always the same from machine to machine, and should be avoided. Many mail agents will strip or remap control characters. * Pictures and diagrams should not use embedded tabs. * Refer to articles by Message-ID, and never by article number. Article numbers vary on every news system, Message-IDs are always preserved throughout the network. * What you think is the previous article is unlikely to be so elsewhere. * Submissions in a single case (all upper or all lower) are difficult to read. In general, when a mailing to somebody fails, DON'T post a message about it! Think for a moment: you are trying to send something to someone on ONE system. Your message might go through (at most) TEN systems on the way there. Posting a message in the news sends it to many tens of thousands of systems throughout the world! There is no way to justify adding to the news load of all those machines simply because you cannot determine how to get your mail through. If your message is important, contact someone who knows more about the mail system and who might be able to help you get your message through. Your local system administrator, for instance, or the admin of the next site "upstream," might be able to help. You can also send mail to "postmaster" at one of the major Usenet sites. Almost all of these people would rather see an occasional plea for help in their mailbox than read another broadcast in the news system. If your message is *really* important, pick up the phone and try to call the other person. ************************************************************************** HOW *NOT* TO BEHAVE ON REC.PHOTO.* (or any other newsgroup!) Original-author: brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton) Archive-name: emily-postnews/part1 Last-change: 12 July 1994 by netannounce@deshaw.com (Mark Moraes) Changes-posted-to: news.misc,news.answers **NOTE: this is intended to be satirical. If you do not recognize it as such, consult a doctor or professional comedian. The recommendations in this article should recognized for what they are -- admonitions about what NOT to do. "Dear Emily Postnews" Emily Postnews, foremost authority on proper net behaviour, gives her advice on how to act on the net. ============================================================================ Dear Miss Postnews: How long should my signature be? -- verbose@noisy A: Dear Verbose: Please try and make your signature as long as you can. It's much more important than your article, of course, so try to have more lines of signature than actual text. Try to include a large graphic made of ASCII characters, plus lots of cute quotes and slogans. People will never tire of reading these pearls of wisdom again and again, and you will soon become personally associated with the joy each reader feels at seeing yet another delightful repeat of your signature. Be sure as well to include a complete map of USENET with each signature, to show how anybody can get mail to you from any site in the world. Be sure to include Internet gateways as well. Also tell people on your own site how to mail to you. Give independent addresses for Internet, UUCP, and BITNET, even if they're all the same. Aside from your reply address, include your full name, company and organization. It's just common courtesy -- after all, in some newsreaders people have to type an *entire* keystroke to go back to the top of your article to see this information in the header. By all means include your phone number and street address in every single article. People are always responding to usenet articles with phone calls and letters. It would be silly to go to the extra trouble of including this information only in articles that need a response by conventional channels! ------ Dear Emily: Today I posted an article and forgot to include my signature. What should I do? -- forgetful@myvax A: Dear Forgetful: Rush to your terminal right away and post an article that says, "Oops, I forgot to post my signature with that last article. Here it is." Since most people will have forgotten your earlier article, (particularly since it dared to be so boring as to not have a nice, juicy signature) this will remind them of it. Besides, people care much more about the signature anyway. See the previous letter for more important details. Also, be sure to include your signature TWICE in each article. That way you're sure people will read it. ------ Dear Ms. Postnews: I couldn't get mail through to somebody on another site. What should I do? -- eager@beaver.dam A: Dear Eager: No problem, just post your message to a group that a lot of people read. Say, "This is for John Smith. I couldn't get mail through so I'm posting it. All others please ignore." This way tens of thousands of people will spend a few seconds scanning over and ignoring your article, using up over 16 man-hours their collective time, but you will be saved the terrible trouble of checking through Usenet maps or looking for alternate routes. Just think, if you couldn't distribute your message to 30,000 other computers, you might actually have to (gasp) call directory assistance for 60 cents, or even phone the person. This can cost as much as a few DOLLARS (!) for a 5 minute call! And certainly it's better to spend 10 to 20 dollars of other people's money distributing the message then for you to have to waste $9 on an overnight letter, or even 29 cents on a stamp! Don't forget. The world will end if your message doesn't get through, so post it as many places as you can. ------ Q: What about a test message? A: It is important, when testing, to test the entire net. Never test merely a subnet distribution when the whole net can be done. Also put "please ignore" on your test messages, since we all know that everybody always skips a message with a line like that. Don't use a subject like "My sex is female but I demand to be addressed as male." because such articles are read in depth by all USEnauts. ------ Q: Somebody just posted that Roman Polanski directed Star Wars. What should I do? A: Post the correct answer at once! We can't have people go on believing that! Very good of you to spot this. You'll probably be the only one to make the correction, so post as soon as you can. No time to lose, so certainly don't wait a day, or check to see if somebody else has made the correction. And it's not good enough to send the message by mail. Since you're the only one who really knows that it was Francis Coppola, you have to inform the whole net right away! ------ Q: I read an article that said, "reply by mail, I'll summarize." What should I do? A: Post your response to the whole net. That request applies only to dumb people who don't have something interesting to say. Your postings are much more worthwhile than other people's, so it would be a waste to reply by mail. ------ Q: I collected replies to an article I wrote, and now it's time to summarize. What should I do? A: Simply concatenate all the articles together into a big file and post that. On USENET, this is known as a summary. It lets people read all the replies without annoying newsreaders getting in the way. Do the same when summarizing a vote. ------ Q: I saw a long article that I wish to rebut carefully, what should I do? A: Include the entire text with your article, particularly the signature, and include your comments closely packed between the lines. Be sure to post, and not mail, even though your article looks like a reply to the original. Everybody *loves* to read those long point-by-point debates, especially when they evolve into name-calling and lots of "Is too!" -- "Is not!" -- "Is too, twizot!" exchanges. Be sure to follow-up everything, and never let another person get in the last word on a net debate. Why, if people let other people have the last word, then discussions would actually stop! Remember, other net readers aren't nearly as clever as you, and if somebody posts something wrong, the readers can't possibly realize that on their own without your elucidations. If somebody gets insulting in their net postings, the best response is to get right down to their level and fire a return salvo. When I read one net person make an insulting attack on another, I always immediately take it as gospel unless a rebuttal is posted. It never makes me think less of the insulter, so it's your duty to respond. ------ Q: How can I choose what groups to post in? A: Pick as many as you can, so that you get the widest audience. After all, the net exists to give you an audience. Ignore those who suggest you should only use groups where you think the article is highly appropriate. Pick all groups where anybody might even be slightly interested. Always make sure followups go to all the groups. In the rare event that you post a followup which contains something original, make sure you expand the list of groups. Never include a "Followup-to:" line in the header, since some people might miss part of the valuable discussion in the fringe groups. ------ Q: How about an example? A: Ok. Let's say you want to report that Gretzky has been traded from the Oilers to the Kings. Now right away you might think rec.sport.hockey would be enough. WRONG. Many more people might be interested. This is a big trade! Since it's a NEWS article, it belongs in the news.* hierarchy as well. If you are a news admin, or there is one on your machine, try news.admin. If not, use news.misc. The Oilers are probably interested in geology, so try sci.geo.fluids. He is a big star, so post to sci.astro, and sci.space because they are also interested in stars. And of course comp.dcom.telecom because he was born in the birthplace of the telephone. And because he's Canadian, post to soc.culture.Ontario.southwestern. But that group doesn't exist, so cross-post to news.groups suggesting it should be created. With this many groups of interest, your article will be quite bizarre, so post to talk.bizarre as well. (And post to comp.std.mumps, since they hardly get any articles there, and a "comp" group will propagate your article further.) You may also find it is more fun to post the article once in each group. If you list all the newsgroups in the same article, some newsreaders will only show the the article to the reader once! Don't tolerate this. ------ Q: How do I create a newsgroup? A: The easiest way goes something like "inews -C newgroup ....", and while that will stir up lots of conversation about your new newsgroup, it might not be enough. First post a message in news.groups describing the group. This is a "call for discussion." (If you see a call for discussion, immediately post a one line message saying that you like or dislike the group.) When proposing the group, pick a name with a TLA (three-letter acronym) that will be understood only by "in" readers of the group. After the call for discussion, post the call for flames, followed by a call for arguments about the name and a call for run-on puns. Eventually make a call for "votes." USENET is a democracy, so voters can now all post their votes to ensure they get to all 30,000 machines instead of just the person counting. Every few days post a long summary of all the votes so that people can complain about bad mailers and double votes. It means you'll be more popular and get lots of mail. At the end of 21 days you can post the vote results so that people can argue about all the technical violations of the guidelines you made. Blame them on the moderator-of-the-week for news.announce.newgroups. Then your group might be created. To liven up discussion, choose a good cross-match for your hierarchy and group. For example, comp.race.formula1 or soc.vlsi.design would be good group names. If you want your group created quickly, include an interesting word like "sex" or "activism." To avoid limiting discussion, make the name as broad as possible, and don't forget that TLA. If possible, count votes from a leaf site with a once-a-week polled connection to botswanavax. Schedule the vote during your relay site's head crash if possible. Under no circumstances use the trial group method, because it eliminates the discussion, flame, pun, voting and guideline-violation accusation phases, thus taking all the fun out of it. To create an ALT group, simply issue the creation command. Then issue an rmgroup and some more newgroup messages to save other netters the trouble of doing that part. ------ Q: I cant spell worth a dam. I hope your going too tell me what to do? A: Don't worry about how your articles look. Remember it's the message that counts, not the way it's presented. Ignore the fact that sloppy spelling in a purely written forum sends out the same silent messages that soiled clothing would when addressing an audience. ------ Q: How should I pick a subject for my articles? A: Keep it short and meaningless. That way people will be forced to actually read your article to find out what's in it. This means a bigger audience for you, and we all know that's what the net is for. If you do a followup, be sure and keep the same subject, even if it's totally meaningless and not part of the same discussion. If you don't, you won't catch all the people who are looking for stuff on the original topic, and that means less audience for you. ------ Q: What sort of tone should I take in my article? A: Be as outrageous as possible. If you don't say outlandish things, and fill your article with libelous insults of net people, you may not stick out enough in the flood of articles to get a response. The more insane your posting looks, the more likely it is that you'll get lots of followups. The net is here, after all, so that you can get lots of attention. If your article is polite, reasoned and to the point, you may only get mailed replies. Yuck! ------ Q: The posting software suggested I had too long a signature and too many lines of included text in my article. What's the best course? A: Such restrictions were put in the software for no reason at all, so don't even try to figure out why they might apply to your article. Turns out most people search the net to find nice articles that consist of the complete text of an earlier article plus a few lines. In order to help these people, fill your article with dummy original lines to get past the restrictions. Everybody will thank you for it. For your signature, I know it's tough, but you will have to read it in with the editor. Do this twice to make sure it's firmly in there. By the way, to show your support for the free distribution of information, be sure to include a copyright message forbidding transmission of your article to sites whose USENET politics you don't like. Also, if you do have a lot of free time and want to trim down the text in your article, be sure to delete some of the attribution lines so that it looks like the original author of -- say -- a plea for world peace actually wrote the followup calling for the nuking of Bermuda. ------ Q: They just announced on the radio that the United States has invaded Iraq. Should I post? A: Of course. The net can reach people in as few as 3 to 5 days. It's the perfect way to inform people about such news events long after the broadcast networks have covered them. As you are probably the only person to have heard the news on the radio, be sure to post as soon as you can. ------ Q: I have this great joke. You see, these three strings walk into a bar... A: Oh dear. Don't spoil it for me. Submit it to rec.humor, and post it to the moderator of rec.humor.funny at the same time. I'm sure he's never seen that joke. ------ Q: What computer should I buy? An Atari ST or an Amiga? A: Cross post that question to the Atari and Amiga groups. It's an interesting and novel question that I am sure they would love to investigate in those groups. In fact, post your question at once, to as many technical groups as you can think of, concluding your request with the line "Please reply by mail, as I do not follow this group." (No one will find such a statement impertinent; remember, the net is a resource to help you.) There is no need to read the groups in advance or examine the "frequently asked question" lists to see if the topic has already been dealt with. Any such warnings are for people without your innate sense of netiquette, and whose uninspired questions are bound to be repetitive. Your question is sure to be unique; no point checking the list to see if the answer might be there already. How could it be, when you only just thought of the question? ------ Q: What about other important questions? How should I know when to post? A: Always post them. It would be a big waste of your time to find a knowledgeable user in one of the groups and ask through private mail if the topic has already come up. Much easier to bother thousands of people with the same question. ------ Q: Somebody just posted a query to the net, and I want to get the answer too. What should I do? A: Immediately post a following, including the complete text of the query. At the bottom add, "Me too!" If somebody else has done this, follow up their article and add "Me three," or whatever number is appropriate. Don't forget your full signature. After all, if you just mail the original poster and ask for a copy of the answers, you will simply clutter the poster's mailbox, and save people who do answer the question the joyful duty of noting all the "me (n)s" and sending off all the multiple copies. ------ Q: What is the measure of a worthwhile group? A: Why, it's Volume, Volume, Volume. Any group that has lots of noise in it must be good. Remember, the higher the volume of material in a group, the higher percentage of useful, factual and insightful articles you will find. In fact, if a group can't demonstrate a high enough volume, it should be deleted from the net. ------ Q: Emily, I'm having a serious disagreement with somebody on the net. I tried complaints to his sysadmin, organizing mail campaigns, called for his removal from the net and phoning his employer to get him fired. Everybody laughed at me. What can I do? A: Go to the daily papers. Most modern reporters are top-notch computer experts who will understand the net, and your problems, perfectly. They will print careful, reasoned stories without any errors at all, and surely represent the situation properly to the public. The public will also all act wisely, as they are also fully cognizant of the subtle nature of net society. Papers never sensationalize or distort, so be sure to point out things like racism and sexism wherever they might exist. Be sure as well that they understand that all things on the net, particularly insults, are meant literally. Link what transpires on the net to the causes of the Holocaust, if possible. If regular papers won't take the story, go to a tabloid paper -- they are always interested in good stories. By arranging all this free publicity for the net, you'll become very well known. People on the net will wait in eager anticipation for your every posting, and refer to you constantly. You'll get more mail than you ever dreamed possible -- the ultimate in net success. ------ Q: What does foobar stand for? A: It stands for you, dear. --- Christian_Paulus has a a french translation of ''Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette''. You can find this text on: ftp://ftp.fdn.fr/FDN/Doc/Emily-Postnews-repond-a-vos-questions or on the World Wide Web: http://www.fdn.fr/fdn/doc-misc/Emily-Postnews.html An ascii version is monthly posted in newsgroups fr.news.misc and fdn.misc **************************************************************************** Bob Atkins AT&T BEll Labs, Murray Hill, NJ Email: rma@clockwise.att.com